Ok so in my months of "trial, tribulations and questioning of faith" one thing ive really kindof realized how arrogant so many christians are(and non-christians too really). Whether you fall on the ET(eternal torture) side of the "fence" or the UR(ultimate reconcilliation) side, each side still likes to act like they have the FULL support of scripture and most of all they act as if they KNOW that they are right. As if its a matter of just being "enlightened" enough by God...and to believe otherwise...well golly you might not have been saved to begin with, partner!(sarcasimm, I greatly hate when people say that to me). One thing ive realized about Christianity in general, or life in general...is that I DONT know if Im right. I dont know if Im right to lean towards universalsim, heck I dont even know if im right to believe in Chrisitanity somedays!
Now dont tune me out here...I believe in what the spirit of what I called on...Christ...Jesus...yesh
And really, I think thats why salvation is more than likely universal in the end of ends or whatever of eternity...while I still believe in Christ and him being of God to pay for us.....because humans are stupid! I heard a quote somewhere and it was absolutley true "everybody thinks that they are right" ...and yet no one ever sees that. Very few people ever challenge why they believe what they do, and then when they do dont challenge their ability to be right about their new conclusions either.
lemme state that its not just a problem exclusive to Chrisitanity, its an agnostic problem, its a muslim problem, its budhist problem, its a hindu problem, its an agnostic problem, its even an athiest problem.
Where am i going with all this? i have no clue. I guess the million dollar question is "How do we really know ANYTHING?" be it be about universal reconcilliantion, christs divinitiy, the bibles validity, Gods exsistence...whether our new assumptions about anything in life are right, religious or non.....whether the color green is in fact...green....whatever youy wanna insert here.
I know that it all comes down to God granted faith in the end (or be it belif in yourself in the athiest case) but...idk. somedays I really feel like im just forcing myself to believe what Ive been taught to believe rather than what I really feel, and its hard to discern which of that is God and which is that is satan and which of that is just me. I feel the most free and oddly, the most close to God and love when I just let myself think freely and ask the hard questions and examine my own assumptions even when I totally dont get it.
one things for sure, whatever you are...completly shutting off the brain to other ways of looking at things, be it what you thought before or never heard, is never a good idea. I think thats safe to say.
EDIT:
The fact is...no one can prove anything in either event.
But thats pretty much the case with anything spiritual...religious...or
Just because something cannot be proved, at least not at said given point...doesnt mean no efforts to attain it or identify somthing or BELIEVE something should not be made. I cant, nor can anyone, gurantee that I will have a good paying job or a job at all after I graduate this spring. Yet that doesnt stop me from hoping, or believing that furthering my education is a good thing.
The same applies with concepts of the spiritual realm and God. I cant prove really anything...but that doesnt mean I should just shrug my shoulders in apathy at the evidence Ive been given. I can be realistic and say I cant prove exactly what the evidence means, but I can at least piece it together to the best of my God-given ability while trying to commune with that which has come into my life.
And that fact and what I feel Jesus has done in my heart and changed me and others is about the only things that keep me from being a total agnostic
A Former Universalist Speaks
ReplyDeleteby "D.R."
Yes, God is LOVE in the purest most complete form that exists! He is the one who showed us what love is. He has even showed us that love is not without limits. We say, God can do everything,but no, such a statement isn't entirely true. He can only do all his holy will; he cannot do evil! In the same way, His love is specifically toward a world that sits in condemnation; he has paid the price to remove that condemnation, but not all people accept His love and gift of eternal life. The Bible says some want to be thieves and robbers, stealing their way into eternal life by their own means. God will not accept that. God's love came through Jesus, his death on the cross & resurrection. The cross is not a pretty picture. It is a picture of severe abuse. Why would a God of love abuse his own Son? You see, it doesn't make sense to our feel-good mentality! But we accept that this is the way God had to pay the price, for "without the shedding of blood, the Bible says, there is no remission of sin.' Eternal punishment is not a pretty consequence of sin, but no matter how we feel about it, eternal punishment of the wicked is exists and we must believe God's word on that. Just because we don't feel good about it, doesn't mean God won't do things that way.
Look at the familiar John 3 verses:
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world," What did God's love produce? this Action-- "that he gave his only begotten Son," Why did he give his Son? For who? "that whosoever believeth in Him" Is that everybody?..no, only those who choose to believe in Him to be their Savior. What are the consequences to the one who believes in Him as Savior?-- "should not perish," means, only those who believe in Him as Savior will not perish. "but have everlasting life." Therefore, only those who believe on him will have eternal life. OK so far?
See the following verses:
17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God...." You see clearly, that all unbelievers are already in a state of condemnation. "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23 YOu cannot become a born-again child of God if you didn't first believe you were condemned already!! All people in the whole world, living past, present, and future are condemned to sin and eternal torment without Jesus as Savior. The GOOD NEWS is that we don't have to suffer eternal consequences because Jesus paid the price through his redemption on the cross! Jesus is the door! There are no other doors to a restored relationship with God, to salvation, saved from the consequences of sin-- condemnation, hell, Lake of Fire. If you don't believe punishment is eternal, then you didn't believe you were condemned forever already and in need of a Savior!! You have to believe in punishment being forever in order to become a Christian.
Salvation is offered to all but not all receive it and become born again. Jesus said "...few there be that find it." So how can you say ALL will find it?! Maybe the reason you cannot see this truth and the truth of eschatology is because an unbeliever cannot correctly interpret the scripture and perceive the truth. If that is so, you need to go back to step one and believe that you are lost, condemned, deserving of permanent Lake of Fire forever and ever. Then see Jesus, the perfect Sacrifice who alone can rescue you!
God does have a purpose for every life he creates, but many prefer to live their own way and reject God's purpose for them. That is not God's fault, because He has provided in great love and sacrifice, the free gift of Salvation. God doesn't want them to perish, but they choose to reject His love and offer and will perish of their own free will. The scripture is clear that only the "elect" of God will have eternal life.
I pray you see the truth.
be careful some consider this dangerous
ReplyDeleteim glad you are thinking deep adn probing
but please read...Unitarian Universalists
Christian or Cult?
Unitarian Universalism (UU), known officially as the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations in North America (with headquarters in Boston, Mass.), was officially formed in 1961 with the merger of two separate religious groups whose roots date back to the early 1500s -- the American Unitarian Association (1825) and the Universalist Church of America (1793). Unitarian Universalism is one of the most liberal of the denominations, being more akin to a society of free thinkers than a traditional "Christian" denomination.
In America, the religious liberalism that came to be known as Unitarianism appeared within the congregational churches in Massachusetts as a reaction against the revivalism of the Great Awakening (1740-43). Unitarianism prospered in the late-18th century among the Harvard elite, and emerged full bloom in the early-19th century as a rational, mystical, liberal religion that rejected the divinity of Christ as well as the Calvinist view of man as totally depraved. The Unitarians believed that man was not only morally perfectible, but that education was the only true way to salvation. Since they believed that evil was caused by ignorance, poverty, and social injustice, they were convinced that only a good liberal education, provided by the government at no charge, would solve society's problems (1/96, The Blumenfeld Education Letter, p. 2).
Universalism is the theological doctrine that all souls will ultimately be saved and that there are no torments of hell. Universalism has been asserted at various times in different contexts throughout the history of the "Christian church" -- e.g., Origen in the 3rd century. The Universalists also denied the miraculous element in Scripture, and rejected such important Bible doctrines as the total depravity of man and the Trinity.
There are currently about 205,000 Unitarian Universalist members in 1,040 congregations in North America. The beliefs of Unitarian Universalism appeal greatly to the "yuppie" generation of today -- no penalty for sin, no hell, salvation for all, ecumenism with all other religions, and extreme theological liberalism with no official creeds. Many in this "church" do not believe in Biblical Christianity, and some do not even want to be known as Christians. According to the Unitarian-Universalist 1985 revised statement, no minister, member, or congregation "shall be required to subscribe to any particular interpretation of religion, or to any particular religious belief or creed." Four of their seven Principles and Purposes are these: The inherent worth and dignity of every person; a free and responsible search for truth; the goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all; respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
In their attempt to be "free thinking" and "non-creedal," the UUs have become so liberal that they deny almost every doctrine of the Christian faith, replacing the worship of God with a worship of self, teaching that human reason and experience take precedence over the Word of God. Below are the highlights of what the Unitarian Universalists "believe" concerning their source of authority, the Trinity, God, Christ, salvation, and heaven and hell:
1. Source of Authority. The UUs deny the divine inspiration and absolute authority of the Scriptures. They claim the Bible was merely the creation of men, and therefore, the Bible contains many "inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and errors." They substitute human reason for revelation as their source of authority, and believe there are no absolute or infallible guides, including reason. [HJB] In fact, UUs desire a world religion that "draws from and honors the teachings of all of the great religious traditions."
2. Trinity. The UUs deny that one God exists in three Persons. Instead, they claim that Trinitarian doctrine was added by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. [HJB]
3. God. The UUs hold a variety of liberal views about God: Some do not believe that He is a Person, but instead claim He is an impersonal spirit, a natural force, or a principle. Some even claim that He is a created being, not supernatural. Others even deny His existence completely.
4. Jesus Christ. The UUs deny the deity of Christ -- that He is not God and Savior, but only a good man and teacher. They claim that the apostles and other Christian writers added to the Scriptures the teachings concerning Christ's atonement for sin.
5. Salvation. The UUs teach that the essence of salvation is character development ("deeds not creeds"), rather than faith in Jesus Christ alone -- the "social gospel" reigns supreme in UU. This belief allows every person to do whatever is right in his own eyes as long as he is sincere about it (including homosexual behavior -- UU became the first denomination to call for the legal recognition of same-sex marriages [Associated Press:6/25/96]; as early as 1970, UUs called for an end to discrimination against homosexuals and bisexuals, and in 1980, UUs resolved that homosexuals should be ordained.).
6. Hell. The UUs hold the "universalist" belief that no one will be eternally condemned. They, therefore, deny the existence of hell, claiming it is unreasonable for a loving God to send people to a place of eternal torment. They believe that we suffer the consequences of sin in this life only. [HJB]
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* Unless otherwise cited, three primary sources were used for this report: (1) Grolier's 1995 Multimedia Encyclopedia, (2) Funk & Wagnall's Encyclopedia, and (3) What They Believe, Harold J. Berry [HJB] , BTTB:1990, pp. 269-287.
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hi Eric ;
ReplyDeletei like what this guy said on your blog;
quote:'If you don't believe punishment is eternal, then you didn't believe you were condemned forever already and in need of a Savior!! You have to believe in punishment being forever in order to become a Christian:"
that makes sense to me- MOM
"if you don't believe punishment is eternal, then you didn't believe you were condemned forever already and in need of a Savior!! You have to believe in punishment being forever in order to become a Christian"
ReplyDeleteJust a question, but I dont ever recall Jesus saying that. I remember him saying something more like "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."John 3:5. I dont recall him saying "you must believed people are damned FOREVER"
and also...unitarian universalists and christian universalists are COMPLETELY different things. Unitatians believe "all paths lead to heaven", christian universalists believe "all people go to heaven but only THROUGH Christ".
Im not suggesting a cult. Im suggesting a diffrernt way of looking at particular vesrses on a particular subject(hey that sounds like every other denomination, huh?)
Lutherans believe in baptizing babies yet churchs like methodist do not. Does that mean one doesnt beleive in scripture? no...it means that they are looking at things differently than the other. So why is it when it comes to the thought that MAYBE everyone will come TO CHRIST at some point in time and that the greek word for "eternal" in the context of hell might not mean "eternal"...that suddenly its a compelete cult??? Why be legalistic and say that every verse can only mean ONE thing and that is what a pastor said somewhere? I believe people will go to hell...im not debating that. Im not debating out need for a savior...for Jesus. What I am debating is whether the greek word pretaining to "eternal Hell" really means "eternal" in the context we use it...and what was really meant by Jesus being the "savior of ALL men". Im debating the possiblity that at somepoint if not in this life, people will see their sin and realize they need to turn to the lord.
yet suddenly...im in a cult and I cant be right because thats not the "orthodox" view on said verses? Thats ridiculous
my next blog im going to go through some verses, as I said, and present my argument on the possibility.